Glen, we would love to enable GPU computing. There are a few things holding this back at the moment.
First and formost security. The protected mode installation we use with Charity Engine is not compatible with GPU computing. I believe it has to do with the design of the video card drivers from the manuafaturers and needing to change their design somewhat... not really in our hands to change that. Charity Engine is installed with protected mode active to provide users with the highest level of protection. If the security design is extended to gpu computing with the needed changes in the drivers we will likely harness their capability to be able to do even more good.
Second we have yet factored how to make gpu computing factor into the drawing entries and keep things fair... but we are working on that.
Fair should be in the result, and that's that. If I get 10 credit per job, then people who deliver 100 job should get 1000 credit. There are people who willing to spend electiricy by keeping their PC always on, and some willing to go out of the way to buy expensive GPU so that it will be supported (just visit GPUGrid!). These people should be compensated by their expenses.
I know that you are looking at things psychology wise (what if CPU users become jaded and leave the project completely?) I know this because GPU computing is expensive, and extensive, and will SLOW your PC (graphically), unless you are on SLI or something (never tried). I'm not shocked if GPU crunching PC are purely crunching PCs and nothing else. And I think you have the numbers, although GPU is fast, percentage of users doing it is not that high (most buy expensive GPU for games, running GPU cruncher is defeating that purpose.
In other words, some people are afraid if they give good (read: fair) credit to GPU crunchers (the one percenters) and the CPU would just leave.
This kind of story surfaced recently when Puff Diddy son won a scholarship (merit based on sport). The thing is that boy DOES deserve it, and he worked hard for it (not for the scholarship, but at being the best, which makes him deserve it). And some people says that to deny it is bad parenting. You can't punish a person for who their dad is.
So back to credit. Simple, it's per job. No matter how fast or slow you work on it.
And i'm saying this despite being a poor bloke whose GPU is not good enough for GPUgrid.
Nothing is more sad than an industry that cares too much on the bad ones that all the good ones just pack up and leaves. Related, but too long of a story...
As soon as we can use GPUs with the sandboxing, we will. They are fantastically useful for grid computing.
And they will be credited fairly, but that's not as simple as counting the number of jobs. The jobs won't be the same...!
CPUs can do fewer-but-more-complex jobs than GPUs, whereas GPUs can do small, simple jobs by the truckload. When the grid has both, they'll each be doing what they're best at.
That sounds very fair. The bonus reward has to reflect the true value of each job to your paying customers and while the work units are CPU based it seems plausible to treat all equally but once GPUs are in the mix you may have to devise a method of scoring the two types of calculation. {Alternatively you might consider creating two lottery sectors one for customers whose jobs can only be done by CPUs and one for the jobs where units may be calculated by GPU}
Thank you Graham for your thoughts on how we can handle adding GPU's to Charity Engine's mix for drawing entries.
I also was thinking of the separate drawing as an incentive to get more users with GPU to join once Charity Engine supports GPU's... we will figure it out.
Great suggestion! A world map of users with temperature data interaction with current users would be a very cool visualization and may be useful tool for us as well to see how Charity Engine's design impacts sustainable choices... I'll pass it on. :)
We want to harness idle/wasted computing power not increase energy use unnecessarally.
Yes Sam, If you installed BOINC instead of the Charity Engine software you may have GPU capabilities enabled if you opted out of the protected applicaiton execution. Though you would only gain entries if the Einstein@home account attached is the autogenerated by Charity Engine. The account would be registered to an account name beginning with "ce" and followed by some numbers matching your Charity Engine account profile.
Is your Einstein@home account one you had previously or one auto attached by Charity Engine?
The break down I believe is an even split of the value of the drawing. Though being able to see the total given to each charity is a good idea. I am adding it to our list of feature requests.
I know this is the wrong place, but I can't find anywhere to ask someone... When is it starting up again, because it seems to have hung on 100% for like 5 days, is this a bug? Or have u shut down the project?
Yes, I'd like to know an answer to the same question as above. My balance increased slightly after 100% was reached but no more points have been added for the last week or so. Thanks.
You are correct the meter is stuck... we are still here sending out work and tracking the work contributed for everyone. I will see what is holding up the reset.
Hey guys, it's okay - the meter stays on 100% until the prize is claimed, just in case the winner is ineligible and we have to do another draw immediately.
It's still counting in the background, so will probably be on double figures when it resets.
I'd like to see an all time leader board. It would be interesting to know where I stack up all time compared to other contributors.
It's planned! We'll also show everyone a cumulative total of how much money their PCs - and those of their invited friends - have raised for charity.
I'd be intrested to see the engine take advantage of GPU's and not just cpu's.
Glen, we would love to enable GPU computing. There are a few things holding this back at the moment.
First and formost security. The protected mode installation we use with Charity Engine is not compatible with GPU computing. I believe it has to do with the design of the video card drivers from the manuafaturers and needing to change their design somewhat... not really in our hands to change that. Charity Engine is installed with protected mode active to provide users with the highest level of protection. If the security design is extended to gpu computing with the needed changes in the drivers we will likely harness their capability to be able to do even more good.
Second we have yet factored how to make gpu computing factor into the drawing entries and keep things fair... but we are working on that.
Thank you for posting!
Fair should be in the result, and that's that. If I get 10 credit per job, then people who deliver 100 job should get 1000 credit. There are people who willing to spend electiricy by keeping their PC always on, and some willing to go out of the way to buy expensive GPU so that it will be supported (just visit GPUGrid!). These people should be compensated by their expenses.
I know that you are looking at things psychology wise (what if CPU users become jaded and leave the project completely?) I know this because GPU computing is expensive, and extensive, and will SLOW your PC (graphically), unless you are on SLI or something (never tried). I'm not shocked if GPU crunching PC are purely crunching PCs and nothing else. And I think you have the numbers, although GPU is fast, percentage of users doing it is not that high (most buy expensive GPU for games, running GPU cruncher is defeating that purpose.
In other words, some people are afraid if they give good (read: fair) credit to GPU crunchers (the one percenters) and the CPU would just leave.
This kind of story surfaced recently when Puff Diddy son won a scholarship (merit based on sport). The thing is that boy DOES deserve it, and he worked hard for it (not for the scholarship, but at being the best, which makes him deserve it). And some people says that to deny it is bad parenting. You can't punish a person for who their dad is.
So back to credit. Simple, it's per job. No matter how fast or slow you work on it.
And i'm saying this despite being a poor bloke whose GPU is not good enough for GPUgrid.
Nothing is more sad than an industry that cares too much on the bad ones that all the good ones just pack up and leaves. Related, but too long of a story...
As soon as we can use GPUs with the sandboxing, we will. They are fantastically useful for grid computing.
And they will be credited fairly, but that's not as simple as counting the number of jobs. The jobs won't be the same...!
CPUs can do fewer-but-more-complex jobs than GPUs, whereas GPUs can do small, simple jobs by the truckload. When the grid has both, they'll each be doing what they're best at.
That sounds very fair. The bonus reward has to reflect the true value of each job to your paying customers and while the work units are CPU based it seems plausible to treat all equally but once GPUs are in the mix you may have to devise a method of scoring the two types of calculation. {Alternatively you might consider creating two lottery sectors one for customers whose jobs can only be done by CPUs and one for the jobs where units may be calculated by GPU}
Thank you Graham for your thoughts on how we can handle adding GPU's to Charity Engine's mix for drawing entries.
I also was thinking of the separate drawing as an incentive to get more users with GPU to join once Charity Engine supports GPU's... we will figure it out.
I'd find world map showing the density of users and current use campared to the temperature interesting.
Pallford,
Great suggestion! A world map of users with temperature data interaction with current users would be a very cool visualization and may be useful tool for us as well to see how Charity Engine's design impacts sustainable choices... I'll pass it on. :)
We want to harness idle/wasted computing power not increase energy use unnecessarally.
Einstein@Home is already giving me GPU tasks, perhaps because I already had Boinc and have just added charity engine as an account manager.
Yes Sam, If you installed BOINC instead of the Charity Engine software you may have GPU capabilities enabled if you opted out of the protected applicaiton execution. Though you would only gain entries if the Einstein@home account attached is the autogenerated by Charity Engine. The account would be registered to an account name beginning with "ce" and followed by some numbers matching your Charity Engine account profile.
Is your Einstein@home account one you had previously or one auto attached by Charity Engine?
The Einstein@Home has been auto attached by Charity Engine. Although I have actually not had any new tasks for a while now on Einstein@Home.
Thank you.
I noticed Mark's comment on giving information as to the amount donated to charities. Would it be possible to provide a breakdown charity by charity?
The break down I believe is an even split of the value of the drawing. Though being able to see the total given to each charity is a good idea. I am adding it to our list of feature requests.
I know this is the wrong place, but I can't find anywhere to ask someone... When is it starting up again, because it seems to have hung on 100% for like 5 days, is this a bug? Or have u shut down the project?
Yes, I'd like to know an answer to the same question as above. My balance increased slightly after 100% was reached but no more points have been added for the last week or so. Thanks.
You are correct the meter is stuck... we are still here sending out work and tracking the work contributed for everyone. I will see what is holding up the reset.
Hey guys, it's okay - the meter stays on 100% until the prize is claimed, just in case the winner is ineligible and we have to do another draw immediately.
It's still counting in the background, so will probably be on double figures when it resets.
There is actually something unusual about the winner this time, although in a good way. Stay tuned...!
So we still can't use our GPU's? Its 2015 and Folding@home does it just fine...