We had a number of users who reported problems with the Rosetta application on their machines. Was a small percentage, but enough to cause us to drop it in favor of others.
Yeah i know about that, thats why i wanted to ask if it could be an optional project with an advanced managing so we can pick how much rosetta WUs we want at once.
Since rosetta needs around 500 MB per WU on an PC with 8 possible WUS you should have 8x500 = 4GB + 1GB (System) so a minimum of 5 GB should be the tech spec for that.
I ask because the rosetta WUs are more consistent using a specific amount of ram than the openmalaria wus (e.g. i got WUs with 50 MB RAM usage and some WUs need 1,5GB of RAM) and also i like the rosetta project in general far more.
So i just wanted to ask that. From your answer i get that there is no plan in getting rosetta back here.
The Rosetta WUs are more consistent in RAM, but they cause some users' machines to crash, which is worse. So until we (or they) get to the bottom of that, we'll probably stay the current course.
FYI, you can add Rosetta from the UI of your desktop app. But please note that any project added this way will not earn credits towards CE jackpots; and also, it will be a bit difficult to manage relative resource share between CE projects and such manually added projects.
I had problems with the Rosetta screen saver but otherwise it was fine. Perhaps some defaults can be setup to make it safer. I'd also have a view to have a standard user and pro user mode of charity engine, I have been using boinc as i wanted more choice in projects and GPU crunching. I have now had to migrate my work PC to CE as BOINC was causing serious problems but that now stops me from working on other projects and it is a powerful machine as it's an 8 core CAD station with 8GB of RAM and I'm not a heavy cad user, 7 out of 8 cores run CE and all is dandy.Are there any other projects CE can run other than malaria and einstein ?does anyone know of another GPU only crunching project I can join for any machines running CE ?
Simon -- as a general note, CE is different from BOINC in a few important ways:
In BOINC the idea is that you lend your CPU to research -- the content of the computations running on your machine (protein folding, climate simulation, etc.) is of primary interest, since these computations are the cause you seek to support.
But with Charity Engine the computations are separated from the cause. In Charity Engine, the computations are, for the most part, not of interest -- except insofar as they generate revenues. What is of interest in CE is where these revenues go: {1} to a prize draw, and {2} as cash donations to "real world", "brick and mortar" charities.
So CE is not meant to be an alternative to general use of BOINC, nor to GridRepublic or similar; it's a new and different use of these technologies, which aims to generate real money for real people and real charities... And so far, so good: see these lists of winners and participatingcharities. It might also be worth noting that more than 85% of our users were not previously BOINC users -- so it may be that a lot of people who were not motivated by science are now putting their idle PCs to work for philanthopy.
(*Note: As the volume of our revenue-generating work increases, the percent of compute time dedicated to "traditional" BOINC projects will go down. But we are committed to maintaining a minimum level of contribution to these projects, even as we grow.)
Simon -- you also asked "does anyone know of another GPU only crunching project I can join for any machines running CE?" I'm not sure I understand what you're asking? (*Is this related to the above, and the idea that one would join miscellaneous BOINC projects through Charity Engine?)
If you were a BOINC user before joining CE, and had an account at a public project which CE supports (*for instance, Einstein@home): then you can continue to login to this account as you always did. Please note however that in such case -- where you are participating via a preexisting BOINC account -- credits for computation will accumulate in your personal account and thus not be counted towards CE prize draws. (*We'll prepare a wiki article to show how to drop a preexisting BOINC account and attach via a CE account, to ensure that all your processing earns you chances to win in the draw.)
But if you were not a BOINC user before joining CE, then CE automatically and transparently creates project accounts for you. Generally speaking it is not possible to login at project servers with these accounts. (*Having said that: with a bit of BOINC kung-fu it is technically possible; but please note that doing so -- and in particular making any changes to these CE-generated project accounts-- will invalidate your prize draw entries.)
Matt, my point was that as far I I know i cannot run both boinc and CE software on the same computer, so I have to make a choice. Where possible I use the boinc software as this allows me to choose projects and use my GPU as well.
My desire for an aditional grid computing project for my GPU is that on machines where I run CE and cannot use the GPU, it would be good to run another grid computing project that will use my GPU (so that the GPU on my works cad station does not go begging)
Although I notice that the GPU option is still present in the CE software. I used to run the world community boinc program and that too was much like boinc can I just tick the use GPU option and add projects that will use the GPU ?
The problem I have with CE is the lack of project choice, I'm on CE for the cash incentive but either way I'd still crunch something so as fight malaria and eistein are not top of my list I tend to add others too.
(*Having said that: with a bit of BOINC kung-fu it is technically possible; but please note that doing so -- and in particular making any changes to these CE-generated project accounts-- will invalidate your prize draw entries.)
I already logged me in into my CE einstein@home account to get only gpu wus. This setting changed should not invalid any results i hope, because for me it was an action of optimzing since i got 2 main devices running CE with one ATI and one NVIDIA GPU.
Since the ATI code of a non CE project is far more effectiv i don't use this ati for einstein@home so i also don't know how effectiv this is, for nvidia i got just one to two hours for an gpu wu on einstein @ home and while that is running fight malaria can use all of my cpus. I thought that would be the best contribution i can make.
I hope these settings won't have any affect to my results in future, so far i see nothing changed.
Sorry for the delay, holiday time and all... a few notes and corrections to comments.
@Simon
There is no need to install Charity Engine along BOINC as they are one and the same just different brands (and CE usually lags behind somewhat on version). So if you are making the choice just install the latest BOINC and attach to Charity Engine as an account manager (not a project as it won't work). You are free to add additional projects along side those autocreated by CE, but the manually added projects or legacy projects you attach to will not earn credits for CE. Only autocreated accounts managed by CE are eligible to create drawing entries.
As Matt highlighted above Charity Engine operates in a different manner than traditional BOINC. While traditional accounts users are able to access their projects and adjust settings Charity Engine is designed to create and adjust settings. Unauthorized access of projects accounts can result in invalidating credits. Drawing winners accounts are validated before prize awards for complying with CE terms. I suggest using the "contact us" form so we can reset any account you may have accessed and modified settings if you want them to generate valid drawing entries.
In short CE is here to do everything automated so we can efficiently optimize use of all resources. We want to attract more people of all skill levles and make this system "just work" to raise money for charity and award prize drawings.
I really don't like that you want to deny the micromanagement by advanced users,
CE CANNOT automatically optimize my different devices resources. Understand me correct i want to help the charitys and so on, but i don't like wasting my resources.
My points i generated seems to be the ones i state at my boinc manager so i hope all my results will get validated.
Sorry to be that angry but without an option for us to manage the accounts in a real easy manner (GPU/CPU) work, you cannot deny us to manage these settings manually. For me i just wanted to get separate work for my cpus and gpus (between the 2 projects) since i got an device where the gpu code of an non ce project is 36 to 42 times SLOWER than the gpu code for another device so i let the faster code run on this device while the other should get work from the ce project.
I will see after the next drawing if my results were validated, if not i will leave forever i'm afraid. This shouldn't be an threat or be interpreted like one but then this system isn't working optimized at all.
Even boinc is dumb at managing loads and different projects, I got a very nasty response on the forum from someone who was not liustening to meand being a big head when I tried to explain that I didn't want my dad's rarely used PC to keep swapping between multiple tasks because it meant no one got a task in on time.
to this problem you should manage to set using 50% of the cpu cores and 100% to the processor time so 1/2 of your tasks are getting forced with 100% of your cpus power.
Also managing the additional working buffer to 0 if you have a consistent internet access. This should be the best solution for this problem as i think.
Darkknight900 we do not look to limit advanced users, we are looking to build a system without the need of any controls or optimization by hand. While we are powered by BOINC we operate as a service rather than a traditional project. The design of Charity Engine is install and enjoy. We take care of the rest. Over time the utilization will become better and become optimized over time.
The design of Charity Engine is different than any BOINC project as we aim to sell cycles to create funds for charity and drawings and fill in the unsold at no cost for select research projects.
The aim of Charity Engine is it lower the barrier to participation to the point where things just work and no micromanagement or tweaks are needed. Thus we are focusing on the optimization rather than feature adjustment and access. We are compatible with adding other BOINC projects and using the BOINC software, but the additional projects would not generate funds for charity. Thus the control for projects and computer is possible, but Charity Engine and its associated project configuration are not enabling these controls. If you desire access to these accounts you can choose to add these accounts manually and remove the Charity Engine automated thus the only credits earned would be for Charity Engine specific projects. I can walk you through this, but this is not the design intention and an edge case as most participants are new to volunteer computing and only know Charity Engine.
While we aim to reduce the need for optimization controls as our centralized design allows new designs. We understand we cannot satisfy everyone's desired features, but with this design we hope to draw in new participants who otherwise would not participate.
We do thank you for your participation in Charity Engine and I can further work to answer your questions if the above does not address the concerns and frustrations.
Is it possible to bring the rosetta project back here? Maybe with an optional option at the profile so you can decide if you want to get such WUs?
Or is there an date when the project will come back?
We had a number of users who reported problems with the Rosetta application on their machines. Was a small percentage, but enough to cause us to drop it in favor of others.
Yeah i know about that, thats why i wanted to ask if it could be an optional project with an advanced managing so we can pick how much rosetta WUs we want at once.
Since rosetta needs around 500 MB per WU on an PC with 8 possible WUS you should have 8x500 = 4GB + 1GB (System) so a minimum of 5 GB should be the tech spec for that.
I ask because the rosetta WUs are more consistent using a specific amount of ram than the openmalaria wus (e.g. i got WUs with 50 MB RAM usage and some WUs need 1,5GB of RAM) and also i like the rosetta project in general far more.
So i just wanted to ask that. From your answer i get that there is no plan in getting rosetta back here.
The Rosetta WUs are more consistent in RAM, but they cause some users' machines to crash, which is worse. So until we (or they) get to the bottom of that, we'll probably stay the current course.
FYI, you can add Rosetta from the UI of your desktop app. But please note that any project added this way will not earn credits towards CE jackpots; and also, it will be a bit difficult to manage relative resource share between CE projects and such manually added projects.
okay thank you so far for these information
I had problems with the Rosetta screen saver but otherwise it was fine. Perhaps some defaults can be setup to make it safer. I'd also have a view to have a standard user and pro user mode of charity engine, I have been using boinc as i wanted more choice in projects and GPU crunching. I have now had to migrate my work PC to CE as BOINC was causing serious problems but that now stops me from working on other projects and it is a powerful machine as it's an 8 core CAD station with 8GB of RAM and I'm not a heavy cad user, 7 out of 8 cores run CE and all is dandy.Are there any other projects CE can run other than malaria and einstein ?does anyone know of another GPU only crunching project I can join for any machines running CE ?
You can login into you Einstein @Home account from CE and setup an home wokringset where you just accept gpu work
can world community grid be setup on CE ?
Simon -- as a general note, CE is different from BOINC in a few important ways:
In BOINC the idea is that you lend your CPU to research -- the content of the computations running on your machine (protein folding, climate simulation, etc.) is of primary interest, since these computations are the cause you seek to support.
But with Charity Engine the computations are separated from the cause. In Charity Engine, the computations are, for the most part, not of interest -- except insofar as they generate revenues. What is of interest in CE is where these revenues go: {1} to a prize draw, and {2} as cash donations to "real world", "brick and mortar" charities.
So CE is not meant to be an alternative to general use of BOINC, nor to GridRepublic or similar; it's a new and different use of these technologies, which aims to generate real money for real people and real charities... And so far, so good: see these lists of winners and participating charities. It might also be worth noting that more than 85% of our users were not previously BOINC users -- so it may be that a lot of people who were not motivated by science are now putting their idle PCs to work for philanthopy.
(*Note: As the volume of our revenue-generating work increases, the percent of compute time dedicated to "traditional" BOINC projects will go down. But we are committed to maintaining a minimum level of contribution to these projects, even as we grow.)
Simon -- you also asked "does anyone know of another GPU only crunching project I can join for any machines running CE?" I'm not sure I understand what you're asking? (*Is this related to the above, and the idea that one would join miscellaneous BOINC projects through Charity Engine?)
Darkknight --
If you were a BOINC user before joining CE, and had an account at a public project which CE supports (*for instance, Einstein@home): then you can continue to login to this account as you always did. Please note however that in such case -- where you are participating via a preexisting BOINC account -- credits for computation will accumulate in your personal account and thus not be counted towards CE prize draws. (*We'll prepare a wiki article to show how to drop a preexisting BOINC account and attach via a CE account, to ensure that all your processing earns you chances to win in the draw.)
But if you were not a BOINC user before joining CE, then CE automatically and transparently creates project accounts for you. Generally speaking it is not possible to login at project servers with these accounts. (*Having said that: with a bit of BOINC kung-fu it is technically possible; but please note that doing so -- and in particular making any changes to these CE-generated project accounts-- will invalidate your prize draw entries.)
Matt, my point was that as far I I know i cannot run both boinc and CE software on the same computer, so I have to make a choice. Where possible I use the boinc software as this allows me to choose projects and use my GPU as well.
My desire for an aditional grid computing project for my GPU is that on machines where I run CE and cannot use the GPU, it would be good to run another grid computing project that will use my GPU (so that the GPU on my works cad station does not go begging)
Although I notice that the GPU option is still present in the CE software. I used to run the world community boinc program and that too was much like boinc can I just tick the use GPU option and add projects that will use the GPU ?
The problem I have with CE is the lack of project choice, I'm on CE for the cash incentive but either way I'd still crunch something so as fight malaria and eistein are not top of my list I tend to add others too.
Matt,
(*Having said that: with a bit of BOINC kung-fu it is technically possible; but please note that doing so -- and in particular making any changes to these CE-generated project accounts-- will invalidate your prize draw entries.)
I already logged me in into my CE einstein@home account to get only gpu wus. This setting changed should not invalid any results i hope, because for me it was an action of optimzing since i got 2 main devices running CE with one ATI and one NVIDIA GPU.
Since the ATI code of a non CE project is far more effectiv i don't use this ati for einstein@home so i also don't know how effectiv this is, for nvidia i got just one to two hours for an gpu wu on einstein @ home and while that is running fight malaria can use all of my cpus. I thought that would be the best contribution i can make.
I hope these settings won't have any affect to my results in future, so far i see nothing changed.
I don't know if my GPU eisteain work under boinc running CE goes to my points ?
u have to logon to our CE Einstein@Home and set there to get just gpu work, the points will count normally
Sorry for the delay, holiday time and all... a few notes and corrections to comments.
@Simon
There is no need to install Charity Engine along BOINC as they are one and the same just different brands (and CE usually lags behind somewhat on version). So if you are making the choice just install the latest BOINC and attach to Charity Engine as an account manager (not a project as it won't work). You are free to add additional projects along side those autocreated by CE, but the manually added projects or legacy projects you attach to will not earn credits for CE. Only autocreated accounts managed by CE are eligible to create drawing entries.
Also see former BOINC user FAQ: http://www.charityengine.com/node/792
@Darkknight900 @Simon
As Matt highlighted above Charity Engine operates in a different manner than traditional BOINC. While traditional accounts users are able to access their projects and adjust settings Charity Engine is designed to create and adjust settings. Unauthorized access of projects accounts can result in invalidating credits. Drawing winners accounts are validated before prize awards for complying with CE terms. I suggest using the "contact us" form so we can reset any account you may have accessed and modified settings if you want them to generate valid drawing entries.
In short CE is here to do everything automated so we can efficiently optimize use of all resources. We want to attract more people of all skill levles and make this system "just work" to raise money for charity and award prize drawings.
I really don't like that you want to deny the micromanagement by advanced users,
CE CANNOT automatically optimize my different devices resources. Understand me correct i want to help the charitys and so on, but i don't like wasting my resources.
My points i generated seems to be the ones i state at my boinc manager so i hope all my results will get validated.
Sorry to be that angry but without an option for us to manage the accounts in a real easy manner (GPU/CPU) work, you cannot deny us to manage these settings manually. For me i just wanted to get separate work for my cpus and gpus (between the 2 projects) since i got an device where the gpu code of an non ce project is 36 to 42 times SLOWER than the gpu code for another device so i let the faster code run on this device while the other should get work from the ce project.
I will see after the next drawing if my results were validated, if not i will leave forever i'm afraid. This shouldn't be an threat or be interpreted like one but then this system isn't working optimized at all.
Even boinc is dumb at managing loads and different projects, I got a very nasty response on the forum from someone who was not liustening to meand being a big head when I tried to explain that I didn't want my dad's rarely used PC to keep swapping between multiple tasks because it meant no one got a task in on time.
to this problem you should manage to set using 50% of the cpu cores and 100% to the processor time so 1/2 of your tasks are getting forced with 100% of your cpus power.
Also managing the additional working buffer to 0 if you have a consistent internet access. This should be the best solution for this problem as i think.
Darkknight900 we do not look to limit advanced users, we are looking to build a system without the need of any controls or optimization by hand. While we are powered by BOINC we operate as a service rather than a traditional project. The design of Charity Engine is install and enjoy. We take care of the rest. Over time the utilization will become better and become optimized over time.
The design of Charity Engine is different than any BOINC project as we aim to sell cycles to create funds for charity and drawings and fill in the unsold at no cost for select research projects.
The aim of Charity Engine is it lower the barrier to participation to the point where things just work and no micromanagement or tweaks are needed. Thus we are focusing on the optimization rather than feature adjustment and access. We are compatible with adding other BOINC projects and using the BOINC software, but the additional projects would not generate funds for charity. Thus the control for projects and computer is possible, but Charity Engine and its associated project configuration are not enabling these controls. If you desire access to these accounts you can choose to add these accounts manually and remove the Charity Engine automated thus the only credits earned would be for Charity Engine specific projects. I can walk you through this, but this is not the design intention and an edge case as most participants are new to volunteer computing and only know Charity Engine.
While we aim to reduce the need for optimization controls as our centralized design allows new designs. We understand we cannot satisfy everyone's desired features, but with this design we hope to draw in new participants who otherwise would not participate.
We do thank you for your participation in Charity Engine and I can further work to answer your questions if the above does not address the concerns and frustrations.